I have done some very hard thinking on this subject this week in response to the comments received. I find this subject very interesting in the fact that it can be so polarizing within the church.
Before I give my rebuttal let me say something that I hope you will keep in mind.
Ask yourself why this is even a topic of discussion?
Answer -
......because there is a living prophet on the earth today who has received revelation on this subject. If there were no standard of modesty in the church, this would not even be an issue. For that standard a good place to look is in "For the Strength of Youth" pamphlet. Here is what it says under the Dress and Appearance section:
“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? … The temple of God is holy, which temple ye are” (1 Corinthians 3:16–17).
Your body is God’s sacred creation. Respect it as a gift from God, and do not defile it in any way. Through your dress and appearance, you can show the Lord that you know how precious your body is. You can show that you are a disciple of Jesus Christ.
Prophets of God have always counseled His children to dress modestly. The way you dress is a reflection of what you are on the inside. Your dress and grooming send messages about you to others and influence the way you and others act.
When you are well groomed and modestly dressed, you invite the companionship of the Spirit and can exercise a good influence on those around you.
Never lower your dress standards for any occasion. Doing so sends the message that you are using your body to get attention and approval and that modesty is important only when it is convenient.
Immodest clothing includes short shorts and skirts, tight clothing, shirts that do not cover the stomach, and other revealing attire. Young women should wear clothing that covers the shoulder and avoid clothing that is low-cut in the front or the back or revealing in any other manner. Young men should also maintain modesty in their appearance. All should avoid extremes in clothing, appearance, and hairstyle. Always be neat and clean and avoid being sloppy or inappropriately casual in dress, grooming, and manners. Ask yourself, “Would I feel comfortable with my appearance if I were in the Lord’s presence?”
Someday you will receive your endowment in the temple. Your dress and behavior should help you prepare for that sacred time.
With that as a backdrop, here is my rebuttal:
While I agree with the view that the garment is not a definition of modesty, it certainly helps aid someone in being modest. One needs to ask themselves, if there were no garment, but a code of modesty, would they follow it?
A comparison was made to the fact that we teach about fasting, but don't expect our young children to fast. True, but in fasting you are actually depriving the child of something that they are not able to comprehend and that causes them discomfort by so doing. While we may not literally have our children fast, I would hope that we are teaching the principles behind fasting long before they actually fast, since that is what makes a fast a true fast. With modesty, we are depriving our children of nothing by requiring them to wear a shirt under a sundress or longer shorts. Therefore the comparison between the two is unfair.
We all engage in various activities that require us to change our dress. In the comment that compared wearing ones garments in public vs. a bathing suit, I again think this is an unfair comparison. They both denote totally different emotions. If you are going to compare the two you must compare wearing garments vs. a push-up bra and thong underwear and a one piece swim suit vs. a string bikini. Modesty is available in all settings, I think we are intelligent enough to know what is appropriate and where it is appropriate.
In regards to the comment where a friend makes baptism age the time that she introduces modesty, I do hope she was teaching it and being an example of it long before her children turned 8. Just as your friend hopes her children will chose to read the scriptures, I'm sure she knows the importance of modeling that behavior and encouraging it in her children before they have to decide for themselves.
I do agree that children will have to make choices for themselves at some point when it comes to their dress. I also know that a 6 month old will not be developing her views on modesty at that young of an age. However, I see no excuse for not dressing children modestly when as a parent you know what is modest and have the choice whether to dress them that way or not. I believe one has to ask themselves why they are dressing their children in a certain way. As said above, if garments are not the definition of modesty, than you need to ask yourself what is and apply it to your children just as you would yourself.
This leads me into my last point which is, since when is a code of modesty age dependent? Shoulders are shoulders, legs are legs, stomachs are stomachs. Other than the female chest after puberty, there is no difference from the said above body parts on my body and those on my little girl. Why should I hold myself to one rule of modesty and not do the same for her?
In closing, I leave you with one parting thought,
In regards to the Garden of Eden, it would be wise to remember who the giver of the fig leaves was as opposed to the giver of the coats of skins.
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i think we need to ask why the FSY would contain guidelines like these on modesty. i propose that it's to ensure sexual purity of our youth (not primary). the FSY booklet isn't handed out until children are 12, when sexuality starts playing a bigger role in the hormones of those kids. and i think by saying that a 2-year-old needs to cover shoulders is saying that her 2-year-old-body is a sexual object, one of desire. which, of course it is not. and that's why shoulders are not shoulders, legs are not legs. a 4-year-old's legs are simply not sexual objects, whereas a 26-year-olds are (but sadly, not my 31-year-old legs).
ReplyDeletei'm sure the person introducing modesty at baptism has been modeling it. but that adult has been to the temple and has made sacred covenants. a 6-year-old has not. it's that simple.
p.s. i don't have a problem with push-ups bras or thong underwear, as long as they're covered.
wow megan. fig leaves and coats of skin? i've found this discussion pretty contentious, while people can disagree about things, even in the gospel. i think we need to be careful about pointing fingers and making judgements of other people and the way they may do things. while i know you feel very strongly about your side, i think people need to listen to the spirit and make decisions based on what they feel to be right rather than what someone else thinks.
ReplyDeletei still agree with erin, the FSY pamphlet isn't distributed to children under the age of twelve and for good reason. while i do see the importance of setting a good example to your children, i don't think a tank top or a sundress is going to be someones downfall. children can be dressed modestly and appropriately for their age and circumstances. the concept of modesty is abstract and i know that my daughter wouldn't grasp it. i'm afraid she'd think that her body would be something to be ashamed about. a few years ago i was pushing my neice in a cart at costco, she pointed out every individual she saw that was immodest and spoke loudly, "that lady isn't modest!" (these women were wearing tanktops) it was embarrassing to me and made those people turn and look at me and give us funny looks. my neice didn't understand the concept and wasn't mature enough to know the appropriateness of her actions. a good example and a discussion when the child is older seems more appropriate to me. i don't think someones decision to allow their children to wear tanktops/sundresses shows their lack of faith and commitment to the covenants they have made for themselves. enough said.
I think this has been an excellent topic of discussion. I like the analogy of the fig leaves and coats of skin. I've never really thought about it like that. Being the "poor" family of our ward, we get a lot of used clothes. I've gotten some sundresses and I can't help but feel a little uncomfortable about putting my daughter in them and she's only two! My mom taught me to dress as if I'd been to the temple from early on. I think I had a sundress and a halter top outfit when I was little and I remember when my mom suddenly stopped letting me wear it. I think I was like 6 or something. She explained and I understood why, but I missed those outfits. Why make it confusing and say it's o.k now, but after you go to the temple it's not? I plan to teach my daughter to do the same once she is old enough to understand the importance as well. I'll admit, I did put my little girl in the cutest little sundress outside a couple of times last summer when it was like 100+ degrees. But I didn't buy it :)
ReplyDeleteToo be honest, there were too many long comments in these two posts for me to read everything in detail. But my feelings are simple. I think this is two different discussions. It would be inappropriate to be running around in tank tops the day before, you go to the temple for the first time. But dressing my infant in a sundress??? Wouldn't think twice about it. If other people want to start with their daughters when they're a day old, that's totally their right. Good for them, I think that's great. But I sure hope they wouldn't be judging me for letting my infants chubby little arms and legs show, and considering it "immoral." Because that would be, well... laughable.
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